by Max Barry

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Nedea wrote:You're crazy. Saratoga and I are blood brothers.

So were Abel and Cain. Just saying.

St Saratoga, 46566, and Ciputra

Athretvari wrote:Welcome back, Ciputra!

Welcome back to the region.

Ciputra

46566 wrote:Welcome back to the region.

Thank you!
It's almost a year, what's have been changed here ?

Athretvari wrote:Welcome back, Ciputra!

Thank you, mate!

Ciputra wrote:Thank you!
It's almost a year, what's have been changed here ?

Nothing much at all really. The region is chugging along as normal. The biggest thing is Moarfall CTE'D.

St Saratoga and Ciputra

46566 wrote:Nothing much at all really. The region is chugging along as normal. The biggest thing is Moarfall CTE'D.

Ah I see... Well thanks for the information

Athretvari, 46566, and Ciputra

Like this post if you love freedom and oppose tyranny in any form!

Nedea wrote:Like this post if you love freedom and oppose tyranny in any form!

Agreed!

Nedea wrote:Like this post if you love freedom and oppose tyranny in any form!

Anarchy! Civilization is built upon the tyranny of the state, be it dictatorial or democratic. Law and order are only possible with the threat of state force to comply, ie police and courts. Some tyranny is necessary, you just need to control its use for the greater good.

Edit: but I like your post anyway, because I oppose the tyranny of liking it only if I agree! ;)

St Saratoga, Nedea, 46566, and Ciputra

St Saratoga wrote:Agreed!

Doesnt count, have to like the post.

Athretvari wrote:Anarchy! Civilization is built upon the tyranny of the state, be it dictatorial or democratic. Law and order are only possible with the threat of state force to comply, ie police and courts. Some tyranny is necessary, you just need to control its use for the greater good.

Edit: but I like your post anyway, because I oppose the tyranny of liking it only if I agree! ;)

You disgust me you altruist.

This is just eating at me now, i wasnt looking for a debate buuuutttt.

Civilization is built upon the tyranny of the state, be it dictatorial or democratic.

This premis is incorrect. Nowhere is civilization defined as requiring a state or tyranny to exist. Civilization is defined by substantial cultural and technological development. Humans were already fairly civilised by the advent of agriculture and were widely decentralized, with their only concerns being the survival of their tribe and family. All interactions in that tribe, sans violent ones, were voluntary.

Law and order are only possible with the threat of state force to comply, ie police and courts.

Again, not entirely true. Why qualify this statement by saying "state force". Its still just force, which is violent, involuntary and just plain rude. Humans detest violence. If people want to organize and call it a state, they can. If they want to fund that state and call it taxes they can. I just want it to be voluntary.

Some tyranny is necessary, you just need to control its use for the greater good.

What? You need tyranny to control tyranny? You see how this is circular logic right? Also, your greater good is not my greater good so it would be unfair and unjust to force your good on others, the very thing you're trying to prevent.

I understand though, its a real doosy building roads so we must need a government to do so.
/s

(Well, you knew this was coming.)

Civilization is defined by substantial cultural and technological development.
That’s like saying all you need to be a great painter is artistic talent, ignoring the need for actual paint or a canvas. Substantial cultural and technological development can only be achieved with a somewhat stable societial system. The question is, how do people achieve a stable societial system in the absence of a preexisting or supernatural overarching judge to decide what is and is not acceptable? Simple, they extend the systems of the natural world. Now, what in nature ultimately controls your behavior? The threat of, or tyranny of being threatened with, violence, harm or death.

Humans were already fairly civilised by the advent of agriculture and were widely decentralized, with their only concerns being the survival of their tribe and family. All interactions in that tribe, sans violent ones, were voluntary.

I’m not so sure I agree we were very civilized before agriculture. Agricultural development is one of those “technological developments” needed for civilization, not so much a product of it. However, I do agree, better agricultural practices are definitely the product of civilization. I also don’t think there’s much evidence to say one way or another if prehistoric tribal membership was voluntary. I dare say it was probably much more familial and extended family based, and we all know the foundation of order in a family is love and, yes, tyranny (punishment) by the parents over their children. Most people don’t remember their first spanking, but unconsciously it set who was in control (the parent) and who would obey (the child). That tyranny can change form overtime to threats of financial orphaning or even simple expressions of disapproval, but it usually remains as a form of power dynamic between parent and child throughout their lives. (I see it all the time with my mother in law, lol.) Then there was the raping and pillaging... how voluntary was that for the raped and pillaged? Not so much.

Humans detest violence.
Very true, thus it’s effectiveness. They’ll usually capitulate than risk escalating to more violence. Tyranny via threat of violence.

If people want to organize and call it a state, they can. If they want to fund that state and call it taxes they can. I just want it to be voluntary.[/i]
I agree. But..... there’s very little voluntary about being an American. I was declared one at birth without my say. What keeps me or anyone else for that matter “American”? It’s not because we all volunteer to be American, it’s because 1) all the land on Earth is claimed so you can’t just start your own country, and 2) if you tried to carve out an independent state, America or some other country would rain holy tyranny on you in the form of their police or armed forces. Sure, you and I could try to become citizens of another country with their own forms of control, but what’s the point of that? Sadly, the days of escaping the tyranny of rest of humanity are long over.

You need tyranny to control tyranny? You see how this is circular logic right?
Kinda like using small controlled fires to control the spread of wild fires. Cra-zay! Yes, the limited and controlled use of tyranny (again in the form of police action to arrest your freedom of movement, and threat of long-term involuntary confinement as punishment) is the basis of Law and Order, with a capital L and an O. In dictatorships the use of tyranny is controlled by a small group of people, in a democracy, we theoretically all control its use via civilian control of the police, but we still have the police.

I understand though, its a real doosy building roads so we must need a government to do so.
It’s more to deal with who controls the tyranny, and how it will be used and when.

Nedea, 46566, and Ciputra

I assumed civilization was created by those who couldn't protect themselves. Scrawny kids find the son of the chieftain or the chief himself and told him how to expand his power buy forming religions that help explain why he got his power (scrawny kids become priests) or form written word to work in the new government as scribes to create law and decrees on why the people in power should stay in power. The big guys(generals or whatever) are given territory and riches to be under the bigger chieftain but still relay on the scrawny kids who stay in the village during war to run the things day to day.

46566 wrote:I assumed civilization was created by those who couldn't protect themselves. Scrawny kids find the son of the chieftain or the chief himself and told him how to expand his power buy forming religions that help explain why he got his power (scrawny kids become priests) or form written word to work in the new government as scribes to create law and decrees on why the people in power should stay in power. The big guys(generals or whatever) are given territory and riches to be under the bigger chieftain but still relay on the scrawny kids who stay in the village during war to run the things day to day.

That has to be the best theory I’ve heard yet. lol...

Athretvari wrote:That has to be the best theory I’ve heard yet. lol...

It makes sense in a way there's a saying the Victor's write the history. Early civilization you always needed educated men. China had the mandate of heaven to explain why dynasties where overthrown, Sumer each city had a local diety that was it's Patron. Having a uniform written language helped keep control. War kept the big guys from the little guys.

Classic wow comes out tonight. I promise I won't be weird about it.

For the Horde!

Nedea wrote:Classic wow comes out tonight. I promise I won't be weird about it.

For the Horde!

I've never played wow. What's the difference between this version and the previous one? Is it just the base game without upgrades?

46566 wrote:I've never played wow. What's the difference between this version and the previous one? Is it just the base game without upgrades?

Yes. The game is as it was like 15 years ago.

Nedea wrote:Yes. The game is as it was like 15 years ago.

So they pulled a Nedea? Found the old game in storage and thought people would buy the "classic" version of the game? At least when Nintendo,square and everyone else is doing it they port games to new consoles.

I should point out that I'm fine with ports, remakes and the like. Though I wish in this day and age the games should come with a download code regardless of how you buy it for the next consoles.

46566 wrote:So they pulled a Nedea? Found the old game in storage and thought people would buy the "classic" version of the game? At least when Nintendo,square and everyone else is doing it they port games to new consoles.

I should point out that I'm fine with ports, remakes and the like. Though I wish in this day and age the games should come with a download code regardless of how you buy it for the next consoles.

Lol. There was no additional cost. People just wanted to play the game as it was 15 years ago. As long as you pay your sub you can play both the retail version and the classic version.

Also, I dont know if I should take offense to "pulled a Nedea" or not. Heh

Read all about it!
- We've an Imperial Gazette
- The seventh DRF Chronicle
- The twenty-fifth Force Flyer
- Not just any truth, but the Union Truth
- Top interviews in Gameplay Magazine. And cookies too!

Poker faces on - it's ♠♥Hold'em ♦♣ at the Sands

19.999 billion pop

Its happening!

Athretvari, St Saratoga, 46566, and Ciputra

NS predicted the future.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/sep/6/cannibalism-whacked-scientist-says-eating-humans-c/

St Saratoga, 46566, and Ciputra

Dear members of The New Coailtion of Nations,
Please find the below order issued from the Secretariat of the Ministry of State of The Democratic Republic. Please read the order throughly and lodge your responses accordingly. Please copy and paste this link on a new browser tab to read the order's contents.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nGauLNm9jlkJvnq3OMFy0pKgQx7hgQNd/view?usp=sharing

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