Fifth EmpireBoard

Ocean point wrote:

First of all, a decisive victory against Ukrainian forces is all Russia would need to get Ukraine on the diplomacy table with Russian conditions, Russia simply doesn't need to penetrate deep into Ukraine, and even if Russia wanted to have a more favourable outcome to get Donetsk and Luhansk freed, they simply could have just went straight for the capital of Kyiv instead of taking so long, I'd presume that with the local Donbassian people on their side they wouldnt have to worry too much about supplies and logistics so why arent they going ahead with the capture of Kyiv, I believe that this war is to show the West how Russia will respond to those who stand against it.

OK lets start here: Russia went for Kiev from the get-go (thus the whole meme of "over in 2 days now 8 months later blah blah"). Kiev is very heavily defended, and there was some absolutely ferocious fighting at Hostomel airport where Ukraine threw literally everything at the Russian special forces who landed there. This is why Russia made such substantial gains in such a short time: Ukraine was pulling back to defend its capitol which allowed the LPR and DPR some flexibility and for Russian seaborne assaults to take the south of the country so quickly.

Further, Russia penetrating deeply into Ukraine is a sound strategic move. I am of the belief you have no formal military training, nor any idea of modern military tactics, so I shall fill you in: breakthrough tactics have been around since Napoleon and can allow objectives to be fluid - cutting off supply lines, encirclements of defending elements, infrastructure sabotage and all the morale loss that goes with that. How many reports have we seen already of "the great Ukrainian counterattack" that surged back through relatively undefended DPR territory?

Further, the West knows how Russia treats those who defy it. We saw it in Chechnya, and in Georgia, and more softly with Kazakhstan. Even worse, we know this kind of game is exactly one the West plays - Libya, Venzuela, Egypt, Iraq, arguably Afghanistan before it became untenable. To villainize Russia over meddling with its neighbours when we hypocritically assault countries on the other side of the world for wanting to go back to the Gold Standard is a bizarre hill to die on.

Ocean point wrote:

Secondly, its not very difficult, keep in mind that all the newly conscripted Ukrainian troops are also very inexperienced, most of them were recently drafted with almost no prior combat experience, now compare that to Russian Troops who are not conscripts but actual professional active duty soldiers with years of training, combat practices and more. Also, Russia spends around 65.9 Billion USD on its Armed Forces as compared to a measly 2.7 billion USD on Defense Forces spended by Ukraine, Russia had waay more armored vehicles. If Putin wanted he could take the Donbass and force Zelenskyy to negotiate. Putin is making an example out of Ukraine to show what happens to those who stand against him. Or the Russian Armed Forces is extremely incompetent, either one works.

Defense force spending is a weird metric to go by when you remember Russia is a nuclear power and most of its budget goes between that and prestige R&D strategies for parades. I have no doubt that in a full scale war Russia would roll over Ukraine, but then you must raise the question of why Putin *hasn't* deployed all his Bears, Armatas, and Su-35s. If it was just a show of force, surely carpet bombing Kiev into dust with a few dozen Bears or even the use of small scale tactical nuclear devices would prove his point. Throwing men into a meat grinder, a point is not. As for incompetence, that's a whole different ballgame.

Ocean point wrote:

Do supporters of Assad acknowledge that Assad gassed people who didnt support him, do supporters of John F Kennedy acknowledge the Monroe Affair? So then why should supporters of Russia acknowledge the genocide going on in Ukraine? As far as Donbass Freedom Fighters are concerned, this genocide is being fabricated by the west, and even if they do know about the genocide in Ukraine, as far as they're concerned, Ukraine is getting what it rightly deserves. Not trying to antagonize the Donbass or justify the genocide in Ukraine but im just saying, people can ignore news they believe is biased, beside, its seems Russia is still doing a pretty good job at keeping their war crimes hidden since most of the non-western world supports Russia/abstained from condemning them.Pfft, Ukraine is a very tiny market for arms deal trade, compared to buyers such as Saudi Arabia and Israel, Ukraine doesn't buy much western weapons, most of the western weapons they had were actually donated by Western Countries, if the Bidens really wanted to get the ching ching they wouldn't be embargoing Russia the way they are, believe it or not but embargoing Russia isn't exactly the most beneficial economic option, Europe will be going with no heating in the winter and the economy is going to suffer because of that, and besides, the USA had little control over the war in Ukraine, it was Russia's choice and Russia will either suffer or be rewarded for this endeavor.

Assad didnt gas his own people. The White Helmets who purported the event are an acknowledged western foreign asset (read: CIA) and Assad had all but won his civil war when the alleged usage occured - not to mention there was never any concrete evidence it had actually been used. The chemical weapons argument was used to try and jibe the people of the UK and USA to support the toppling of the Syrian government but the peoples of those countries were all too aware of the lack of WMDs Iraq had.

You also misunderstand the reason why Euromaiden happened: the Ukraine coup'ed to be more Western. This would include buying western weapon systems, integrating into NATO and the EU combined defense command structure as well as all the intelligence systems that comes with agreements like those.

As for the ching ching - America stands to make a substantial amount now that Russian oil is off the table for Europe. Biden himself had his son on the board of directors for the largest Ukrainian gas company Burisma when the company was being rocked with allegations of corruption, money laundering, and tax violations. It's no surprise that many can see Ukraine for what it is - after all Daddy Zelensky ran on a platform of ending corruption like in his TV show. Plus, and here's the kicker for my CIA and GCHQ handlers, a disunited and poor Europe cannot stand up to the United Stands. Only a combined superbloc, like that of the EU, had the bargaining power and economic status to rival the US. It's why BRICS are always seemingly embattled in some domestic affair - because any threat to the American hegemony must be ended.

Ocean point wrote:

Bruh, they were in LITERAL BODY BAGS WHEN THEY WERE FOUND. DId you ever bother to think that the individual crosses on the graveyard were made by the Ukrainians who discovered it as a sign of respect? There is a reason why victims of the Holocaust were given proper burials rather then being kept in the body bags in which they were killed.

Werent victims of the Holocaust dumped in mass graves or incinerated in crematoriums? I'm not certain they even got body bags. Either way, the Bucha massacre was fishy as all hell, simply because we know the AZOV honour guards went through town before the massacre was discovered and everyone knows their reputation for killing collaborators.

Fascist republic of israel wrote:

How would I go about receiving Department of Based clearance?

You DM me and tell me why you're about to be a cringelord

Fascist republic of israel wrote:

How would I go about receiving Department of Based clearance?

DM me and I decide whether to take the security off my metaphorical Chinese rip-off AK47

Tobosarsk wrote:

A simple point I want to make is:
Stop watching CNN and the Guardian. Go triangulate your sources and come back with a proper claim and analysis instead of saying what you see in a single article as the concrete truth.

There's a reason why Im even talking in this region. Stop mistaking me for a democrat. Just because I dont support Vladimir Putin's war on Ukraine doesn't make me a liberal.

Tobosarsk wrote:

I'm not saying you're a democrat, I'm recommending you to read from both sides and create a coherent argument because currently it seems you're only looking at it from a purely Western perspective.

Am I? I've acknowledge the wrongs committed by Ukraine in the Donbass. Most westerners would shun at such a prospect.

P0rtvgal wrote:

My sources are schizo telegram channels from both sides and I only give a fugg about footage and context verification;

& /chug/ reigns supreme no capzorz

What an atrocious unfunny region

This directed towards me?

Well anyway, I missed the HOI4 75% discount by a few hours....
:(

P0rtvgal wrote:

try allkeyshop

Ill just wait till black friday and then purchase HOI4, Endless Space 2 and maybe sneak in a HOI4 DLC or get Stellaris.

The best case scenario is that both Russia and Ukraine collapse, and all the land is given to me, personally.

God Fearing Devoted wrote:

When you subsidize child labor, does each industry react in accordance to how safe it is for kids? I’d guess yes.

The Iron Stars wrote:

Definitely dont waste your time with Endless Space 2

Stellaris is good with all the DLC though I can vouch for that as a map painter.

But I'm a Victoria 2 sneering imperialist so I'm qualified to look down on all of those games.

Well I've played Endless Space and really like it, so I was thinking about getting it.
Yeah, Stellaris DLC's are completely bonkers, but I enjoy 4x space games alot, Im really torn between Endless Space 2 and Stellaris.

Victoria 2 doesn't spark much interest in me for some reason, it's just not interesting to me, but I respect your opinion nonetheless.

I think HOI4 is a good game that one require me to buy hundreds in DLCs, I'll only need like 1 or two.

The Iron Stars wrote:

All fair. I will say I got Endless Space 2 for free and if I could have I would have refunded it. One of the most atrocious games I've ever had the distaste of putting on my hard drive. Stellaris does everything in the game better.

P0rtvgal I think my nation name gives away that I lieks da sciences and da fiction :D CK2 was hella cool though, I sank many many hours into that. Wouldnt buy CK3 on principle because they removed "Deus Vult" and all the right wing memes because Paradox were total babies around that time. Women CEOs - not even once Kappa

Honestly I beg to differ on Endless Space 2, Endless Space 2 first off does a much better job at art style, politics, space battles, ship customization, faction variety and storytelling, and its much simpler then the complication that is Stellaris. On the other hand, Stellaris is waay better at customization, diplomacy, deeper mechanics, multiplayer and replayability. While Endless Space 2 meta almost never changes, Stellaris is an ever-changing battleground between different builds due to the influx of content and patches that always upset the game's meta. But this also makes Stellaris basically all about min maxing the best traits, ethics, civics and origins, Stellaris roleplaying in multiplayer is always really hard when your dealing with infallible builds created by expert youtubers who know every nook and cranny about the game and will roast you, and your just trying to roleplay as an ancient machine consciousness that seeks to understand the universe. Compare this to the Endless Space 2 which isn't always about minmaxing, there are defined factions and Endless Space 2 has a faction for everyone whether you seek playstyle, their aesthetic or their lore. But, if you can coordinate a Stellaris roleplaying game, then Im almost certain it will be alot more fun then an Endless Space 2 roleplaying multiplayer games.

The Iron Stars wrote:

ES2 definitely has a meta

Besides which, I actually own both games. I can assure you that everything ES2 does, with the sole exception of the manpower mechanic, Stellaris is overwhelmingly better at. Art style is subjective, so I wont bother on that argument.

Also, I rarely play online. It's hard enough getting groups together for D&D or even just regular video games, never mind a map painting game that will actually finish in my lifetime.

Lol, then I can see why you'd choose Stellaris. Still man, the DLC prices are insane, Im not gonna pay 10 dollars to look like a plant.

Ocean point wrote:

Lol, then I can see why you'd choose Stellaris. Still man, the DLC prices are insane, Im not gonna pay 10 dollars to look like a plant.

Yeah I'm kinda glad the predatory Paradox DLC monster has been slain. That said, only like 3 DLCs are needed for functionality, a couple for stories and the rest are flava town.