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Darths and Droids wrote:It's not justice, it is housekeeping. Sure, rehabilitation is the goal here, until you get folk like Elmo, who ignore efforts to rehabilitate. At this point the Forest Warden steps in.

Good point. We simply need to take caution, and not be hasty, and hear the alleged spammer’s side of the story, which coincidentally relates to what I was saying about the protests and the subsequent crackdown.

Atsvea, Ruinenlust, Lord Dominator, and The young ur

Middle Barael wrote:Two comments. Firstly, I agree with you that it is more egalitarian if we all mostly have the same demonym, so maybe we’re all Trees or Forestians, but Errinundera, Verdant Haven, and maybe Ransium are Foresters?

Secondly, what is PC? Also, good point about white privilege. I too have avoided the subject compared to other social justice issues like climate change, partially probably due to white privilege, and also due to the fact that I always cared more about climate change, gun reform, LGBTQ gets, foreign policy, and now more recently, healthcare, income inequality, proportional representation, multi-party statehood (like more than two parties, we need a system that is like a parliamentary system but without the whole prime-minister-comes-from-the-most-seats-as-opposed-to-most-literal-votes thing), and social democracy.

I got that wrong. I meant "CS" meaning "Capsicum Spray." Also, referring to it as a gas was inaccurate because it is actually a mist.

What the US should do is switch to something like STV on the federal level and eliminate the Electoral College in presidential elections. These things will never be allowed by the "major parties" (Really their corporate masters) and sparsely populated states, but they would give "minor parties" a chance to participate in DC government. Also, I would love to see the second-place candidate assume the vice presidency. I would also like to see a mechanism for voters to pull federal court judges.

Octopus islands

I feel I am actively becoming less intelligent the longer I spend reading social media posts...

The newest trend for teens to virtue signal with is #blackouttuesday, where everyone literally just posts a black square on Instagram. That's it. >90% of the posts have no description or caption that provides links to charities or places to help, just a black square.

Worst part is that many are adding BLM hashtags to those blasted squares, and are therefore suppressing posts and information relating to the matter by flooding the hashtag full of meaningless black squares. So I can't even call it harmless.

Yes, it's "spreading awareness", but does spreading awareness matter on a social media platform where everyone follows dozens of accounts that have been posting awareness for the last month incessantly? I think not. Not to mention anyone American with an internet connection or a television already knows about the protests and BLM anyways, so just posting a black square with the caption "black lives matter" doesn't change anything at all.

Turbeaux wrote:I got that wrong. I meant "CS" meaning "Capsicum Spray." Also, referring to it as a gas was inaccurate because it is actually a mist.

What the US should do is switch to something like STV on the federal level and eliminate the Electoral College in presidential elections. These things will never be allowed by the "major parties" (Really their corporate masters) and sparsely populated states, but they would give "minor parties" a chance to participate in DC government. Also, I would love to see the second-place candidate assume the vice presidency. I would also like to see a mechanism for voters to pull federal court judges.

I’m not sure if I support IRV or STV, but in general I do support ranked voting. I think presidential elections should just be proportional representation, and we also need to break up the democrats and republicans to a degree, and add in new parties and let the current 3rd parties do better. I’d imagine a more moderate Democratic Party, a more Berniecrat-type Progressive Party, a centrist party, a trendy Yang-Trump hybrid business party, Green Party, libertarian party, far-right party, a Black rights party, Latino rights party, LGBTQ rights party, and more just for people who want more choices. I do, however, think the VP should be chosen by the President, but maybe there can be a new position of some sort to have the second candidate do something, or maybe force the cabinet to be partially made of other candidates?

Octopus islands, Atsvea, Ruinenlust, Lord Dominator, and 1 otherThe young ur

Turbeaux wrote:What the US should do is switch to something like STV on the federal level and eliminate the Electoral College in presidential elections. These things will never be allowed by the "major parties" (Really their corporate masters) and sparsely populated states, but they would give "minor parties" a chance to participate in DC government. Also, I would love to see the second-place candidate assume the vice presidency. I would also like to see a mechanism for voters to pull federal court judges.

These "sparsely populated states" are mostly ruralites. If that happens, then the big cities will consistently dominate the political arena. Guess which predominate political faction lives mostly in the urban areas. Hint, it's not the same one as in the sparsely populated states. The Electoral College was designed for something like this.

Darths and Droids wrote:These "sparsely populated states" are mostly ruralites. If that happens, then the big cities will consistently dominate the political arena. Guess which predominate political faction lives mostly in the urban areas. Hint, it's not the same one as in the sparsely populated states. The Electoral College was designed for something like this.

Yes, but if most of the American people support something, then it should be able to happen. We are literally just advising certain people chosen by the state to vote for the President, but they do not even translate directly to votes, not to mention faithless electors. I’d be moderately okay if we kept the electoral college, but if we essentially made them seats rather than people, so that rather than delegates are voting, it’s whoever wins the place. But that still leaves out the other half of people in those districts. Sure, they may have lost their district’s election but their vote should still count! It’s essentially a bunch of tiny winner-takes-all elections. Plus, speaking about fairness, votes in some places are worth less than in others. All votes should be worth the same, whether in California or Wyoming, and if that means that Wyoming is underrepresented, so be it! Most Americans liked their choice for American President, and it is irrelevant to the election if most Nebraskans or Wyoming-ers or Dakotans are pleased with the pick for president. We are voting for the president of America, not rural America, so all votes must be the same. A state is not a thinking person, so it doesn’t really matter if the states are represented equally, what matters is if all people are! And right now, our votes don’t really count, and we’ve also even elected several Presidents now who weren’t even voted for by mot Americans. Al Gore and Hillary Clinton and others have won their respective elections when it comes to the amount of votes, yet somehow others have become president because of how the tens of thousands of Americans in urban and suburban and deeply red or deeply blue areas have not been counted in their votes! This is not true democracy, this is just the majorities in small potentially gerrymandered-districts deciding the president

Middle Barael wrote:Yes, but if most of the American people support something, then it should be able to happen. We are literally just advising certain people chosen by the state to vote for the President, but they do not even translate directly to votes, not to mention faithless electors. I’d be moderately okay if we kept the electoral college, but if we essentially made them seats rather than people, so that rather than delegates are voting, it’s whoever wins the place. But that still leaves out the other half of people in those districts. Sure, they may have lost their district’s election but their vote should still count! It’s essentially a bunch of tiny winner-takes-all elections. Plus, speaking about fairness, votes in some places are worth less than in others. All votes should be worth the same, whether in California or Wyoming, and if that means that Wyoming is underrepresented, so be it! Most Americans liked their choice for American President, and it is irrelevant to the election if most Nebraskans or Wyoming-ers or Dakotans are pleased with the pick for president. We are voting for the president of America, not rural America, so all votes must be the same. A state is not a thinking person, so it doesn’t really matter if the states are represented equally, what matters is if all people are! And right now, our votes don’t really count, and we’ve also even elected several Presidents now who weren’t even voted for by mot Americans. Al Gore and Hillary Clinton and others have won their respective elections when it comes to the amount of votes, yet somehow others have become president because of how the tens of thousands of Americans in urban and suburban and deeply red or deeply blue areas have not been counted in their votes! This is not true democracy, this is just the majorities in small potentially gerrymandered-districts deciding the president

Sadly all too true. Yet this is the system America currently has. Winner takes all.

Darths and Droids wrote:These "sparsely populated states" are mostly ruralites. If that happens, then the big cities will consistently dominate the political arena. Guess which predominate political faction lives mostly in the urban areas. Hint, it's not the same one as in the sparsely populated states. The Electoral College was designed for something like this.

1. Elections are still relatively close in the popular vote.

2. Big cities and their environs are where the vast majority of people live. If we want a proper democracy, it is only fair that urbanized areas get equal representation. With the electoral college, my vote is worth several times less than a resident of Wyoming. Even in the electoral college, cities still dominate the election in most individual states.

3. Essentially there are around 10-15 states that are contested every election, which causes ridiculous levels of political apathy and means candidates cater exclusively to those states which amount to maybe a quarter of the electoral college. If candidates had to cater to urbanized areas, they would be catering to around three quarters of the country.

#1 it is extremely unclear to what degree this remains true or even has ever entirely been. maybe it is. maybe its not.
i would hazard a guess there have been studies to create an objective metric for this, i am not however familiar with any of them if there are.

#2 this much, it seems to me, is absolutely true. from my perspective it is not absolutely a good thing, but does appear to be a true one.

#3 it is entirely unclear what percentage of elected officials cater to anything. what is clear is the need to apply science and conscience, and balance both with popular wish and consensus. doing that while retaining public favor and support, is of course the game of democracy.

1. This was a response to the comment that pure popular vote would mean the Democratic party would win by large margins. This is just false, as of the last 5 elections, only one was decided by a margin of more than 5 percent (2008).

3. If you research where campaigns spend money and where the candidates make campaign stops, it is clear that campaigns (reasonably) spend massive amounts more in high population swing states than anywhere else, and the candidates themselves make many times more stops in a few key states than the rest of the country combined. In fact, in 2012, Romney and Obama spent more in Florida, Virginia, and Ohio combined, than all other 47 states combined. In 2012, the candidates made 96.2% of campaign stops in 10 states.

Forwintrr League Championship

It is with great veneration that I announce Ownzone, Forest as the home of our first ever Pokemon Master!

A round of applause for the Pokemon Master of Ownzone and all other challengers, and my deepest appreciation for our Gym Leaders who identified all this outpour of talent coming from so many of our nations.

Championship

Four nations are going head-to-head to compete for the title of our very first Pokemon Master!

These nations are:
Ownzone representing Forest
The Atlae Isles representing The Rejected Realms
The church of satan representing The Rejected Realms
French Albania representing Wintreath

Through 24-hour elimination face-offs using the Challenge system, one of these four nations will be declared a place of Mon-Masters!

Match One: Ownzone v The Atlae Isles

Prior Encounters: 0-0

29 May 2020 - 30 May 2020

16:00 UTC START - 16:00 UTC FINISH (12:00 pm EST - 12:00 pm EST)

Encounters: 4-1

Winner: Ownzone

Match Two: French Albania v The church of satan

Prior Encounters: 0-0

30 May 2020 - 31 May 2020

16:00 UTC START - 16:00 UTC FINISH (12:00 pm EST - 12:00 pm EST)

Encounters: 151-183

Winner: The church of satan

Final Championship Match: Ownzone v The church of satan

Prior Encounters: 0-0

1 June 2020 - 2 June 2020

16:00 UTC START - 16:00 UTC FINISH (12:00 pm EST - 12:00 pm EST)

Encounters: 11-0

Winner: Ownzone

It is with great veneration that I announce Ownzone, Forest as the home of our first ever Pokemon Master!

A round of applause for the Pokemon Master of Ownzone and all other challengers, and my deepest appreciation for our Gym Leaders who identified all this outpour of talent coming from so many of our nations.

Read dispatch

PS we have just over one day left for the final votes of the Beauty Contest's Super Rank! Head on over to your regional poll.

Effazio, Verdant Haven, Octopus islands, Mount Seymour, and 7 othersAtsvea, Lord Dominator, Myordas, The void territories, McClandia Doge 2, I like fire, and Middle Barael

To me the actions of both police and protestors are symptomatic of deeply entrenched problems with American society, in particular the machismo and the culturally perpetuated belief in violence-based solutions.

In their heads, the cops are action movie heroes, holding the line against faceless masses of criminals. They're the clean-cut 80s movie stars fighting off the tides of brown people who are threatening the American Way. Or they're the defenders of civilisation, taking down zombie hordes.

Equally, violent rioters see themselves as righteous rebels against The Man, striking a blow against oppression. Or they're the plucky survivors, defending their rights against those who've come to take them away. Or they're the individualist voices of freedom, that says "No more!" and "No, you move", and does so with a clenched fist.

It's all about the righteousness of violence, which is echoed by and reinforced by American fiction and media. It's the myth of one good man taking up his gun, or sword, or whatever, and battling against enemies who are objectively evil. When was the last time you saw a movie where the problems were solved by negotiation and compromise?

This isn't an easy thing to fix of course, and censorship of media entertainment is never the way forward, but I think some self-reflection is due. We're taught from an early age of the justness and goodness of righteous violence, and to me that's the narrative that needs to be challenged.

To me though, the largest blame here lies with power, and I have more sympathy with protestors than the state here. Trump's response in particular is especially horrifying - deploying the military against your own people shows a distinct lack of empathy for one's own citizenry, and is all about shows of dominance and iron-fisted control rather than good government. Here's a man who hates the free press, hates protest, hates free speech, hates dissenters, hates disagreement... It's surprising to me that a nation with such strong values of democracy and liberty has any desire to elect him again.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:To me the actions of both police and protestors are symptomatic of deeply entrenched problems with American society, in particular the machismo and the culturally perpetuated belief in violence-based solutions.

In their heads, the cops are action movie heroes, holding the line against faceless masses of criminals. They're the clean-cut 80s movie stars fighting off the tides of brown people who are threatening the American Way. Or they're the defenders of civilisation, taking down zombie hordes.

Equally, violent rioters see themselves as righteous rebels against The Man, striking a blow against oppression. Or they're the plucky survivors, defending their rights against those who've come to take them away. Or they're the individualist voices of freedom, that says "No more!" and "No, you move", and does so with a clenched fist.

It's all about the righteousness of violence, which is echoed by and reinforced by American fiction and media. It's the myth of one good man taking up his gun, or sword, or whatever, and battling against enemies who are objectively evil. When was the last time you saw a movie where the problems were solved by negotiation and compromise?

This isn't an easy thing to fix of course, and censorship of media entertainment is never the way forward, but I think some self-reflection is due. We're taught from an early age of the justness and goodness of righteous violence, and to me that's the narrative that needs to be challenged.

To me though, the largest blame here lies with power, and I have more sympathy with protestors than the state here. Trump's response in particular is especially horrifying - deploying the military against your own people shows a distinct lack of empathy for one's own citizenry, and is all about shows of dominance and iron-fisted control rather than good government. Here's a man who hates the free press, hates protest, hates free speech, hates dissenters, hates disagreement... It's surprising to me that a nation with such strong values of democracy and liberty has any desire to elect him again.

This is one of my biggest problems with America, our machismo, over the top culture. Everything has to be bigger, louder, more noticeable, yet that doesn’t mean it’s better. Canadian culture and American culture really are very similar, but Canada is calmer, more low-key, safer, nicer, and it’s just better. I’m American, but I have dual citizenship, and my dad is Canadian. My brother and I are Canadian Left-sign nationalists, which is one of the few countries with a leftist nationalist wing. We love to joke that Canada should just annex the US, but sadly that wouldjust corrupt Canada and keep America. Oh well, if only we were less like nationalist crazy loud people who love fast food and iced coke and more like refined, safe, calm people with a warm, welcoming culture and good legislation. But I know this probably will never happen

From the outside what I see in the US right now is the makings of a revolution. That would not necessarily be a bad thing - except for the part about people getting hurt.

Try to imagine a planet populated with humans who don’t seek to increase their stockpile of resources by taking control over those claimed by someone else. Even if the first few communities agree to hand over control peacefully, there will inevitably come a point where they encounter resistance and resort to violence. Waging war is human nature.

It doesn’t have to involve killing each other, though. I think we’re in agreement that even one life matters. We have conventions and other rules of engagement that forbid torture and genocide. There’s no reason we can’t broaden those rules. We could include all intentional infliction of bodily harm. If you can’t imagine that ever being possible then it proves my point. Enforcement is another matter, but agreement in principle is a first step.

Humans, together with our AI companions, are ingenious enough to come up with non-violent means of strategic competition to provide an alternative outlet. We could start by replacing the tyranny of the majority and redesigning the way we measure wealth and operate our economy.

...Somewhat related, now that I have finally made it through all the back posts I missed by being away for a few days:

I agree with all the reasons described so eloquently, that our planet is overpopulated by humans. I just don’t know how to change that. Up until about a year ago I still thought of it in terms of the population bomb. Then someone told me about the work done by Hans Rosling, which has given me perspective https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E

[If you really can’t bring yourself to watch all of it, skip to the last 5 minutes where he sums it all up. If you’d like to see some innovative presentation software and you can multitask as well as most people think they can, watch it in the background while you’re doing chores.]

Even though there are clearly too many of us for the planet to sustain, I’m still convinced that there are enough people like us (forest-loving free-thinkers) who are capable of infecting the majority with our compassionate values, to effect the changes our planet and our societies so desperately need.

Hello.
I'm following the discussion/debate. Really smart people here.
(This region as a whole is too smart for me to follow 😢 but I've been here for God knows how long and I wouldn't dream of moving. )

When I woke up this morning and saw 31 notifications on our RMB, I was about to /facepalm and wade in with my suppress button. What a wonderful and pleasant relief to find that our long-suffering RMB was jam-packed not with spam and non-regional attempts at jest, but with intelligent and well-phrased discussion and debate about current events, world affairs, and things that are worth reading, chewing on, and responding to! Not only that but there were 1) multiple threads of conversation occuring, and 2) all of them were civil and polite, like they should be! This shouldn't be a surprise - it's one of the reasons I love this place so much - but after the last couple weeks of wildness I was prepared for the alternative. Huzzah! Thank you, Foresters, for being awesome.

My minor thoughts on some of those discussion threads, where I feel like I have something to contribute...

- Regarding the demonym for Forest, I personally like to use "Forester" for two reasons. The most important one is because other people will understand what I mean when I use it outside of our region. When I post on the forums, or speak with somebody over telegram for regional business, if that guy from Forest refers to "Foresters" they can pretty readily draw a conclusion about who I mean. While I often refer to us in metaphor as "Trees" I don't tend to use that with outsiders. I'm afraid they would either be completely confused, or else draw some humorous conclusions about my consumption of smoking materials (think Reddit's /r/trees sub, which has nothing to do with arboriculture). The other reason is because it is already a real word that refers to people. A forester is a human, so when I think of us as players, it works for me. I use "Forestian" as an adjective... Forestian principles, Forestian ideals, etc, but I refer to us as Foresters. None of that is official policy, nor better than anybody else's preferences... those are just my own personally!

- On the subject of the ban-hammer, that's definitely something I've thought about trying to expand. It isn't so simple as just asking, though. The power of border control is very specifically defined in the very first article of our Constitution as belonging solely to the Founder except in exceptional times of crisis. This goes hand in hand with our firmly held belief in being open to all. In my mind, a person doing something severe enough to warrant being banned from Forest probably is doing something severe enough to warrant being banned from the game, which means filing a GHR rather than just booting them out and making some other region deal with them. That's not to say I don't wish we could selectively withdraw RMB-posting privileges from individual nations residing in our allied regions, but the mechanic doesn't exist to do that. We could limit it to only the officers of embassy regions, but that both cuts off many good friends, and doesn't eliminate all of the actual problems we've been seeing. Those who recall any of the last 8 months know that I am not at all averse to amending the Constitution, but when I looked at the options, expanding our ability to crack down on people felt like a lower priority to me than some of our other amendment needs. Again, I wouldn't be averse to expanding it if that is generally desired... but to whom? Certainly I wouldn't mind our Delegate having it, but that begins to create the danger that a non-executive delegate prevents. The Forest Keeper? Beware granting an elected official the power to remove those they don't like. For my own short time in office I can say I would use it sparingly and "when needed" but would you all agree with my decisions? I've been an admin in enough games for enough time to know that there will always be disagreement. I feel like we have enough people with a suppress button to get our message across right now, without the permanence and pain causing by banjections. Only during special game events do I feel like we should ban freely.

- The Pokemon event. Congratulations, Ownzone, on your victory! Thank you for representing Forest, and bringing home another trophy to us. I know this was a controversial thing, but I feel like much of the controversy was caused by the timing, which landed quite inadvertently during our unprecedented period of leadership uncertainty, and then in the voting period that followed where literally nobody had any control abilities, and our ability to participate in planning was limited. While I think most of us would have liked for some elements of that event's structure to have been done differently to avoid posting on our RMB, that's a lesson learned for next time, and by all other counts I think the organizers managed a successful event. The real world is a mess right now, and if some people were able to derive happiness and a bit of a silver lining through this event, I can't be upset about it. We will ensure all future events of that nature utilize our forums rather than our RMB, but hopefully we will have many more events in the future for our citizenry to join.

- Product Life-Cycle Analysis - Don't let Turbeaux's new Environmental Action Item get buried! Doing life-cycle analysis on a product is really quite an eye-opening activity, and fits perfectly with the interests of Forest in recognizing the environmental consequences of our choices, and choosing wisely which ones we accept. Check out the dispatch pinned as item 1 on the Forest WFE!

- Finally, regarding the ongoing protests across America, and in many other countries in support. This is a scary time. It was a scary time before these protests broke out, and it was a scary time before the murders that triggered these protests. What I try to remember is that for many oppressed people, discriminated against daily, treated as second class citizens and subject to violence for the entirety of our country's existence, it has been a scary time their entire lives. I'm working from home to avoid a virus, but if I need to run to the grocery store or pharmacy, I don't get pulled over, I don't get followed by police, I don't get looked at sideways by security guards. When I have interacted with police, it has been with smiles and a handshake, not a drawn gun and shouts, as happens to many others who are just as innocent as me going about their daily lives. When I laid down to go to sleep at 11:30pm last night, it was to the sound of shouting protestors, sirens, and low-flying helicopters in an area that normally does not have air traffic. From the top of my building I can see the place where the most corrupt and vicious person ever to hold the office of President in this country lives - at least when he's not turning off all the lights and hiding the basement like the coward he is. From my living room window I can see the building where the Congress that enables him works.

To my fellow Americans, I am mad as hell, and I don't know if my vote this November will make any particular difference, but you better believe I will be casting it. Do not allow the attempts to instill fear by the current administration keep you voting. Do not allow the attempts to make you think it doesn't matter keep you from voting. Do not allow the lying attempts by extremists to persuade you "there's no difference between the candidates, they're all bad" keep you from voting. Do not resign yourself to another term of this utterly evil, hate-filled, self-serving monster setting the example for the country. Remember to vote in your local elections too. And vote in the primaries. Vote every single time you have the chance. Make your voice heard. Talk to your friends and neighbors, and make sure they are casting a vote. Do they need a ride to the polls? Many local political parties offer ride services to voters to make sure they can exercise their rights. Do you have family members or community members who are confused about how to request an absentee ballot? Help them! Offer to drive them to the post office to mail it, or take them to a ballot collection station. Keep shouting, but don't just shout. Vote.

To all our friends in other countries who are looking at the US right now in disbelief, believe me, many of us in the US are looking at ourselves the same way. To those citizens in other countries that are turning out to protest in your own homes on behalf of a murder victim thousands of kilometers away in another land, thank you. To countries whose political officials have made statements calling in to question America's choices, thank you. There is nothing that stabs at the fragile ego of our so-called leader more than being publicly questioned, and every protest, every inquiry, every statement is a dagger in his heart. He will spin, and scream, and do what he does, but do not stop stabbing.

I apologize for the outright politicization of my post. As the elected leader of the region, representing all Foresters, I have tried to avoid making political statements on non-environmental subjects. This is not a government post however, and some subjects are too important to ignore. When basic human decency becomes a political question, decent humans must speak politics.

Verdant Haven wrote:Finally, regarding the ongoing protests across America, and in many other countries in support. This is a scary time. It was a scary time before these protests broke out, and it was a scary time before the murders that triggered these protests. What I try to remember is that for many oppressed people, discriminated against daily, treated as second class citizens and subject to violence for the entirety of our country's existence, it has been a scary time their entire lives. I'm working from home to avoid a virus, but if I need to run to the grocery store or pharmacy, I don't get pulled over, I don't get followed by police, I don't get looked at sideways by security guards. When I have interacted with police, it has been with smiles and a handshake, not a drawn gun and shouts, as happens to many others who are just as innocent as me going about their daily lives. When I laid down to go to sleep at 11:30pm last night, it was to the sound of shouting protestors, sirens, and low-flying helicopters in an area that normally does not have air traffic. From the top of my building I can see the place where the most corrupt and vicious person ever to hold the office of President in this country lives - at least when he's not turning off all the lights and hiding the basement like the coward he is. From my living room window I can see the building where the Congress that enables him works.

Verdant Haven wrote:

To my fellow Americans, I am mad as hell, and I don't know if my vote this November will make any particular difference, but you better believe I will be casting it. Do not allow the attempts to instill fear by the current administration keep you voting. Do not allow the attempts to make you think it doesn't matter keep you from voting. Do not allow the lying attempts by extremists to persuade you "there's no difference between the candidates, they're all bad" keep you from voting. Do not resign yourself to another term of this utterly evil, hate-filled, self-serving monster setting the example for the country. Remember to vote in your local elections too. And vote in the primaries. Vote every single time you have the chance. Make your voice heard. Talk to your friends and neighbors, and make sure they are casting a vote. Do they need a ride to the polls? Many local political parties offer ride services to voters to make sure they can exercise their rights. Do you have family members or community members who are confused about how to request an absentee ballot? Help them! Offer to drive them to the post office to mail it, or take them to a ballot collection station. Keep shouting, but don't just shout. Vote.

I also completly agree. The way trump has been acting about these protests is horrible and it seems barely any other people are stepping up to the plate and trying to handle these protests other than these police officers who think using brute force and guns will just stop these protests magicly. They don't realize that these actions are making the protests more and more violent because they think "Oh so these police think that using violence is the way to solve the worlds problems. Fine we will use violence then to." The more protests there are the more cops there are the more cops there are the more guns there are the more guns there are the more violence there is. The more violence there is the more protests there are. It just feels like an endless cycle.

Hope this also contributed to the discussion.

For some reason it deleted Middle Baraels part of the discussion and what i said about what he said i am sorry if you didn't get to read that part.

Verdant Haven wrote:
that's definitely something I've thought about trying to expand. It isn't so simple as just asking, though. The power of border control is very specifically defined in the very first article of our Constitution as belonging solely to the Founder except in exceptional times of crisis. This goes hand in hand with our firmly held belief in being open to all. In my mind, a person doing something severe enough to warrant being banned from Forest probably is doing something severe enough to warrant being banned from the game, which means filing a GHR rather than just booting them out and making some other region deal with them. That's not to say I don't wish we could selectively withdraw RMB-posting privileges from individual nations residing in our allied regions, but the mechanic doesn't exist to do that. We could limit it to only the officers of embassy regions, but that both cuts off many good friends, and doesn't eliminate all of the actual problems we've been seeing. Those who recall any of the last 8 months know that I am not at all averse to amending the Constitution, but when I looked at the options, expanding our ability to crack down on people felt like a lower priority to me than some of our other amendment needs. Again, I wouldn't be averse to expanding it if that is generally desired... but to whom? Certainly I wouldn't mind our Delegate having it, but that begins to create the danger that a non-executive delegate prevents. The Forest Keeper? Beware granting an elected official the power to remove those they don't like. For my own short time in office I can say I would use it sparingly and "when needed" but would you all agree with my decisions? I've been an admin in enough games for enough time to know that there will always be disagreement. I feel like we have enough people with a suppress button to get our message across right now, without the permanence and pain causing by banjections. Only during special game events do I feel like we should ban freely.

A few thoughts on that. Assuming you're still planning to ask the founder to confer executive powers on the delegate that would already let the genie out the bottle since an executive delegate could grant the banhammer to other people. I remember Errinundera specifically refusing a request to give the government border control before, but in those days we'd only have to wait 24 hours max before he logged in and took an interest in what was happening so the situation wasn't the same. Nonetheless, executive delegacy might be easier to sell to him if strict constitutional controls on the banhammer were proposed, and this links in turn to the question of whether or not future constitutional changes should require the founder's active consent.

In terms of game mechanics, I once asked a moderator about the situation where someone got their nation deleted and then came back with a new puppet and carried on where they left off. I was told that since the deleted nation hadn't been banned from Forest no rules were broken by the player behind it continuing to post, but if there had been a ban then posting around it would be illegal. As Mount Seymour said, context is everything and behaviour that's anathema to Forest is welcome and encouraged in many regions. We can't therefore expect the mods to keep house for us. I believe their view, not unreasonably, is that the banhammer mechanic exists to allow regions to do that for themselves.

That said, I think the way things have gone in the last couple of hammer-free days has been good. The quality of the RMB has improved dramatically, multiple posters have upped their game considerably and we can suppress and ignore the assorted manifestations of Elmo. I was personally quite cross at one point and I'm glad I didn't have banjection powers I might have been tempted to deploy in haste. This way seems more befitting of the region.

Oh, and speaking of hammer time, check this out, it's hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI87PRgIKks

my really short take on this discussion is that i give absolutely no credence to arguments that use culture to justify differences and events. i really only see things through cause and effect, and i dont consider humans to be all that different underneath the skin. from the news about happenings in hk i think that these protests will keep happening until they finally address the problem of racism and black communities facing discrimination and increased cases of being suddenly killed by police. even if these cases are extremely rare and spread across the large population still means that they face the chance of suddenly killed once day without reason and that is unbearable in any society especially a developed one. that they are so many cases of people getting killed means it has reached a breaking point and no matter if the police controls all the protests or if the protestors dissolve themselves suddenly if the underlying issue isnt completely solved then protests will keep on erupting for every catalyst. if the next government decides to bury it and all the other social issues with half measures then it will never be a question of choosing violence of non-violence, the morality of supporting law and police or supporting radical change, believing in democracy or freedom, calming down or angry demands, how you should count in elections or how you should attempt the various ways of changing society because if nothing is done then people will always realise that there is no other choice than riots; because that is the only way they can grasps at straws of hope for change. to blame the protestors for being immoral bad eggs and having a poorly thought out culture is to remove yourself from the reality–that the background issues behind the violence deserves much more focus than the violence itself, and to condemn the violence more than to condemn the issues–means that society would continue to be damaged as nothing will be solved and violence will recur and recur ad infinitum, until a reckoning ceases to be postponed or until something rips. it will be as you say an endless cycle

"Let me say as I've always said, and I will always continue to say, that riots are socially destructive and self-defeating. I'm still convinced that nonviolence is the most potent weapon available to oppressed people in their struggle for freedom and justice. I feel that violence will only create more social problems than they will solve. That in a real sense it is impracticable for the Negro to even think of mounting a violent revolution in the United States. So I will continue to condemn riots, and continue to say to my brothers and sisters that this is not the way. And continue to affirm that there is another way.

But at the same time, it is as necessary for me to be as vigorous in condemning the conditions which cause persons to feel that they must engage in riotous activities as it is for me to condemn riots. I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention."

but im just someone ignorant and young from hk :) no idea about anything related to america

Atsavea, you should use punctuation, sentences and proper capitalisation. I can't get more than a few lines through your post before my eyes start to water.

How are things in HK with the pro-democracy protests?

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Atsavea, you should use punctuation, sentences and proper capitalisation. I can't get more than a few lines through your post before my eyes start to water.

How are things in HK with the pro-democracy protests?

They’ve calmed down a bit because of the pandemic. But now they’re intensifying because of the security law. But it’s still nowhere near as bad as in Minnesota in my opinion.

I usually don’t use capitalisation and punctuation because I don’t like spending that much effort on social media. Schools already stressful enough :)

The Young Ur is currently considering taking its leave of the halls of the World Assembly. We take our leave because the deeper we dig, the more resolutions we find that disrespect the sovereignty of our nation and openly disregard the sanity of all lives. Our country feels that one nation cannot do enough to turn the tide and protect our own citizens at the same time from some of the more destructive resolutions. Ur will continue to voice its vote through through it’s province, The ambassadorial province of ur.

Middle Barael wrote:I think presidential elections should just be proportional representation

What exactly do you mean by this? "Proportional representation" generally refers to the way votes are distributed in a multi-winner, multi-seat body like a legislature. I'm not sure how you can have representation that's proportional when you're electing only one person.

Mount Seymour wrote:What exactly do you mean by this? "Proportional representation" generally refers to the way votes are distributed in a multi-winner, multi-seat body like a legislature. I'm not sure how you can have representation that's proportional when you're electing only one person.

You're right, I misspoke, I meant that they should just be one big election via popular vote, as opposed to an electoral college or a parliamentary way of electing. However, the house of representatives should just become a proportional representation system, and I think it makes more sense to make the HR the upper house, not the senate, since the HR more directly reflects the will of the people, because it is proportional representation, although this is less important to me.

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