The Thaecian Senate Board

The Elected Monarchy of World Trade

Aye

Aye

Senate chair marvinville

Results - Amendments to L.R. 008

Amendments to L.R. 008
Authors: Andusre & Broustan
Sponsor: Andusre
As amended by: Andusre, Marvinville & Zanaana

Ayes (6) - Andusre, Brototh, Dendrobium, Islonia, Marvinville, World Trade
Nays (0)
Abstentions (0)

Amendments to L.R. 008 has passed the Senate, as amended. It will now move back to the House of Commons for further action.

Zanaana

Pap sculgief

Senate chair marvinville

Opening Debate - The Safety Net Act

The Safety Net Act
Authors: Korsinia, Broustan & Marvinville
Sponsor: Marvinville

We have now begun debating The Safety Net Act. Authors Korsinia and Broustan have permission to participate in our debate. I urge Senators to post your thoughts on this bill and to submit any amendments you have as you see fit.

Andusre
Brototh
Dendrobium
Islonia
World Trade

Pap sculgief

The Elected Monarchy of World Trade

Very big problem with this bill is that the PM can no longer threaten a minister with being fired if they don't do their job. Can't support this. Would propose an amendment but I think it would be more appropriate for Marvinville / Senate chair marvinville to do so considering he is a co-author and sponsor. If there's no amendment for it I'll make one later on

World Trade, Pap sculgief, and Islonia

I think that the bill is very good and well thought out. I definitely think this is something we ought to pass (besides what Brototh said)
However, I do think there are other threats an employer could make besides threating to fire their employee.
I therefore propose Amendment A.

Subsection I: Threatening employees will be defined as coercion, whether successfully or not, against the employee in question into doing something against their will by threatening them with being fired until demands are met.

I understand that other threats may be covered by Thaecian law already, but I feel that this definition is too restricting.

Edited

Subsection II: If the Prime Minister or President are is found to threaten employees or, ministers, or the Secretary of Roleplay, they will be subject to a court audit and the court may request impeachment if they deem it fit.
Subsection IIa: The Prime Minister reserves the right to threaten a Minister or the Secretary of Roleplay with being fired and/or replaced, if that Minister/the SoRP is not fulfilling the requirements of their job.
Subsection IIb: If the Minister/SoRP believes that the Prime Minister is wrong and they are fulfilling the requirements of their job, or that they believe the Prime Minister is defining the 'requirements of their job' to be something illegal, they reserve the right to request a court audit of the Prime Minister.

I am open to suggestions to improve this Amendment, however, I really cannot vote aye to this bill if the PM does not have the right to threaten a minister with being fired if they do not carry out their job. This is an issue we had in the Roleplay -- very temporarily mind -- and when the Prime Minister Korsinia brought up the possibility of removing Islonia from his position, the problem was quickly sorted out with no issues. This is something I heavily opposed in the Amendments to LR 008 with the blackmail clause, and I do the same here.

Two things:
I first invite the SoRP & Hon. Sen Islonia to tell me whether or not he believes that the Safety Net Act should further extend to the SoRP, as I have put in my bill. If he does not believe so, I am more than happy to remove the statements about the SoRP from the amendment. The only reason I wrote it in is because the SoRP is practically a Minister in all ways except from name.

Second, of which I believe might cause people to consider voting Nay to Amend. B as it might be confusing, the passage 'or that they believe the Prime Minister is defining 'requirements of their job' to be something illegal is in there for the explicit reason of this:
The Prime Minister should not reserve the right to threaten a Minister/SoRP if they are extending the 'requirements of their job' to be something that could be deemed illegal under LR 008 or any other law in our region. Without this clause, it could be rather simple for the PM to say "Doxx someone or be fired" (An exaggeration, perhaps a poor example, but it gets the point across). While I'm sure most people would go to the Court regardless, resign, or be fired, it helps to put it in there for clarity.

The Avatar of Thanatos of Islonia

Brototh wrote:

snip

I don't see why the SoRP shouldn't be included here so it's fine by me. 😋

Brototh

Korsinia

Islonia wrote:

I don't see why the SoRP shouldn't be included here so it's fine by me. 😋

Oh no we're regulating the RP!!!

Korsinia wrote:

Oh no we're regulating the RP!!!

Amendment B destroyed, go home kids

Dendrobium

I think the Safety Net Act will be a very important addition, and am honestly a lilttle surprised until now something alike hasn't been in action already. However, I also think that, because it is so important, this Act must be made as good as it can possibly be. That is why I would like to propose another Amendement:

Section I: For an employee to be properly dismissed, the employer must forewarn the employee in question by 24 hours and must give a clear reason as to why this decision has been reached.
Subsection I: If a dismissal occurs before the 24-hour period passes or a forewarning has not been issued the employee reserves the right to sue their employer. If the employee is found to have been dismissed in a way that is not compliant with this act, the employee must be returned to their previous position if they want this to happen.

After having been the victim of such a lowly act like abuse of power or unjust dismission, I don't think it would be unreasonable that the victim would no longer wish to work in the same, possibly toxic, environment, so forcing them back would have nothing but a contrary result.
Besides that I also think that Article III has perhaps some unfortunate choice of words, where Section I almost sounds as if abuse of powers/positions is allowed; I don't think this really needs an Amendement to be changed, rather I ask the authors' and my fellow Senators' input as I might just be mistaken in this perception.

Islonia and Brototh

Senate chair marvinville

Voting - Amendments

The Safety Net Act
Authors: Korsinia, Broustan & Marvinville
Sponsor: Marvinville

Amendment A
Author: World Trade

To amend Article III, Section I, Sub-section I

Subsection I: Threatening employees will be defined as coercion, whether successfully or not, against the employee in question into doing something against their will by threatening them with being fired until demands are met.

Amendment B
Author: Brototh

To amend Article III, Section I, Sub-section II

Subsection II: If the Prime Minister or President are is found to threaten employees or, ministers, or the Secretary of Roleplay, they will be subject to a court audit and the court may request impeachment if they deem it fit.

Subsection IIa: The Prime Minister reserves the right to threaten a Minister or the Secretary of Roleplay with being fired and/or replaced, if that Minister/the SoRP is not fulfilling the requirements of their job.

Subsection IIb: If the Minister/SoRP believes that the Prime Minister is wrong and they are fulfilling the requirements of their job, or that they believe the Prime Minister is defining the 'requirements of their job' to be something illegal, they reserve the right to request a court audit of the Prime Minister.

Amendment C
Author: Dendrobium

To amend Article II

Section I: For an employee to be properly dismissed, the employer must forewarn the employee in question by 24 hours and must give a clear reason as to why this decision has been reached.

Subsection I: If a dismissal occurs before the 24-hour period passes or a forewarning has not been issued the employee reserves the right to sue their employer. If the employee is found to have been dismissed in a way that is not compliant with this act, the employee must be returned to their previous position if they want this to happen.

We have now begun voting on the three proposed amendments to The Safety Net Act.

My votes are as follows:

A - Aye
B - Nay
C - Aye

Andusre
Brototh
Dendrobium
Islonia
World Trade

The Elected Monarchy of World Trade

aye to all

World Trade

3 years 288 days ago

The Avatar of Thanatos of Islonia

A- Aye
B- Aye
C- Aye

Aye to all

Dendrobium

A. Aye
B. Aye
C. Aye

The People's Republic of Andusre

3 years 288 days ago