by Max Barry

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Lookerness wrote:snip

Counterpoint: Language evolves, especially English. It evolves through common usage and over the years words that originally meant one thing can often lead to a very different meaning over time. When people use the word lame as an "insult", the intended meaning and the connotation are typically far from meaning physically disabled in Osiris. If, in the context of this Valentine's day mini game and the overarching "#BullyCulture" of Osiris (meaning that we tease our friends and expect to be teased back with undertones of endearment), the word was being used to ridicule those with physical limitations then I think you'd have a small point. But that's not the intended use and nobody is saying anything about those who are physically disabled in the slightest.

When you over censor language to a point that intent and common usage are ignored in favor of saving the feelings of people that aren't even mentioned in the context, are you really championing the cause of anyone? What about those who don't want to be treated any differently because of their disabilities?

Also, when you nitpick language you cause quite the pushback from people who think that you are calling their behavior wrong when the intent is anything but harmful. Go tell people who actually discriminate against the physically disabled to change their behavior, not a bunch of people on a nation simulator trying to have fun with a valentine's mini game as part of a culture you haven't joined.

"adorable endotarter"

yeah no.

Lookerness wrote:My NS cupid name is "Lame Osirian." Perhaps there can be a teachable moment in this.

The adjective "lame" needs to be retired from use. Or as suggested in this essay, "Let’s Disable the Word Lame" (https://www.tolerance.org/magazine/lets-disable-the-word-lame). The transition from a description of someone's physical limitations into a descriptor for "stupid, unoriginal, or lifeless" is really hurtful.

Take a few minutes and read the essay. Consider letting go of this word.

I appreciate your reaching out and the thought you put into this. :) I can assure you the common vocabulary used by Osirans is not in the least meant to be hurtful. Osiris is probably one of the friendliest and most caring regions in the game, and though we do tease one another, it's the kind of teasing that you find between family or friends who know each other well and are careful of everyone's feelings. We of course can't account for an observer's opinion and how their outside view of our friendly interactions comes across. But within ourselves, our silly banter is more endearment than it is anything else.

Like Lynx says, language evolves. You had to educate us to even draw any of us to the conclusion that "lame" may have ever been used as a genuine insult on physically disabled people. That's how far removed we are from serious negative connotations on that word. In the present, it is at worst calling something or someone boring.

I'm religious, and my dad used to always say that the power of life and death is in the tongue, so we should always speak kindly. So I guess I understand where the banter might on the wrong day hit someone the wrong way, and we might have to bandaid hurt feelings because of it, when if we just only sprinkled love everywhere that might not be a problem. But even on the worst days, I don't think anyone would think we were calling them something extreme if we said they were lame. At the end of the day, this is who we are and how we interact. For us, it's healthy and friendly, and it brings people into the community in a innocent way who would otherwise feel excluded from it. We can't win everyone over, and we know that. But we're friends, we care about each other, and we're not hurting each other's feelings.

But thank you for your concern. :)

Yokiria, Benjabobaria, Dhaeland, Alrengard, and 5 othersLexissac, Kawaiis Sleeper Nation, True Spain, Valerievna, and Lukatonia

Ophiuchus the snake charmer

My NS cupid is god and Anime

I'm probably gonna cringe at my own positivity here, but here goes >.>

Altinsane, you are one of my favorite people in NS and probably the person in the game that I have the most respect for. I would undoubtedly be in a less awesome place in NS without you, and I cannot thank you enough for all that you have taught me and done for me.

To Arnavaz, United empire of the pacific, Lukatonia, Valerievna, Luna State, and countless other great friends in Osiris, thank y'all for existing and being so fun to talk to.

And to all the Legionnaires out there - thank you for being a part of the Sekhmet Legion! We've become an awesome military force and it wouldn't be possible without each and every one of you.

Luna State, Altinsane, Alrengard, Valerievna, and 1 otherLukatonia

Benjabobaria wrote:snip

>_>

Ghostfox wrote:>_>

He thinks you're a nerd. We all do

Everyone is writing essays, and mentioning specific people. I'm not going to do that, and instead say thanks for the Osiran community that has shown me parts of the game that I didn't know that existed before. Here's to another happy year in NS ^_^

Yokiria, Altinsane, Ghostfox, Lexissac, and 2 othersTrue Spain, and Valerievna

Long Live Osiris. <3.

Charming Raider is my NS Cupid name. Ironic, considering my Charmlessness stat.

Benjabobaria wrote:And to all the Legionnaires out there - thank you for being a part of the Sekhmet Legion! We've become an awesome military force and it wouldn't be possible without each and every one of you.

Aye! Thank you for the opportunity to join :)

Benjabobaria and Altinsane

Oh boy, vat people! Yay!!!

Valerievna and Johnsongrad two electric boogaloo

Oh neat, my Osi nation is a year old now....has it really been that long since I made this one?

Jamil Federations, Yokiria, Altinsane, Alrengard, and 1 otherValerievna

Kawaiis Sleeper Nation wrote:DEN did nothing wrong.
#VandyForFieldMarshal2040

DEN did many, many things wrong.

Alrengard

Johnsongrad two electric boogaloo

Alrengard wrote:Oh boy, vat people! Yay!!!

Welcome to the club!

Alrengard

Yokiria wrote:DEN did many, many things wrong.

I know! I can't move in there now! D:

Benjabobaria and Valerievna

Ghostfox wrote:>_>

Oh, I forgot to mention you didn't I :p
You're my favorite person to make fun of/get made fun of by lol. May our banter continue to carry on, you big lame-o.

Sheriff lunar

I'm the Fuzz!

Johnsongrad two electric boogaloo

Sheriff lunar wrote:I'm the Fuzz!

SCATTER!!!

Yokiria and Lukatonia

Benjabobaria wrote:Oh, I forgot to mention you didn't I :p
You're my favorite person to make fun of/get made fun of by lol. May our banter continue to carry on, you big lame-o.

Oh it's def gonna carry on. >_>

Benjabobaria and Lukatonia

Ghostfox wrote:

Also, when you nitpick language you cause quite the pushback from people who think that you are calling their behavior wrong when the intent is anything but harmful. Go tell people who actually discriminate against the physically disabled to change their behavior, not a bunch of people on a nation simulator trying to have fun with a valentine's mini game as part of a culture you haven't joined.

Not sure where you got "nitpick" in all of this. I invited you with the following words to, "Take a few minutes and read the essay. Consider letting go of this word."

As for "as part of a culture you haven't joined," yes, I am new to this RMB. I mostly keep to myself, trade some cards, and answer some issues. I got a telegram inviting me to "Just check this dispatch (takes less then a minute) and comment on the RMB :)"

So I played the game and commented. And now, it feels like you are attacking me. It doesn't appear to be "a fun little thing you can do for NationStates Valentine's Day!"

You said, "Language evolves." Yes, it does. Sometimes, it involves letting go of words that may not be intentionally harmful, but their impact is harmful.

Also, I did not call anyone's "behavior wrong." Again, I invited you to read an essay and consider letting go of a word.

Anyway, good luck to you.

Lookerness wrote:snip

I disagreed with you and stated why. If you'd like to change the word "you" to the word "one" in my reply, feel free to do so. When "one" nitpicks, etc.

I'm sorry it felt like an attack, for what that's worth. But I was talking about the subject matter of over censoring language, not about you as a person.

Ghostfox wrote:I disagreed with you and stated why.

And this is why it felt like an attack. It was supposed to be a fun Valentine game and you decided you couldn't keep your disagreement to yourself.

Who am I? I tried to join in the game. Asked people to read and think.

And now ... I suppose this will go on until you decide that you have won. Fine. You win.

Lookerness wrote:And this is why it felt like an attack. It was supposed to be a fun Valentine game and you decided you couldn't keep your disagreement to yourself.

Who am I? I tried to join in the game. Asked people to read and think.

And now ... I suppose this will go on until you decide that you have won. Fine. You win.

You aren't entitled to go unopposed, Lookerness. The very idea that she should just nod at your ideas and bite her tongue about her own opinions is ridiculous. What makes you so highly to be considered over herself that her opinions should be silenced while yours should inspire others to think? I gave you a perfectly polite counterargument, which you ignored so that you could further berate my Heiress Apparent.

You're very eloquent, friend, but don't appear to be very polite or open. I'm sorry if you felt attacked, but truthfully I took time out of my day to present you an opportunity to discuss the matter civilly, if you took offense to the way she presented herself. Doesn't look like civil discussion is what you were after. Looks like you only wanted us to be guilted into submission. That isn't how we treat people here.

Benjabobaria, Stefflandia, and Ghostfox

I believe Lookerness is being misunderstood.

Lookerness wrote:It was supposed to be a fun Valentine game and you decided you couldn't keep your disagreement to yourself.

It seems this belonged in quotation marks, as Lookerness was describing they felt attacked. I think a proper paraphrase would be 'Just because I dared to disagree, I'm somehow ruining the fun Valentine game? That's how it feels'. I do not think they were stating 'You couldn't keep your disagreement to yourself' as their own personal opinion.

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